Alligator Wisdom

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Posts by Alligator Wisdom

• 
  75

  I am a "semi-apologist"!

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

  what is this some kind of promotion?

  after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

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  Alligator Wisdom

  AlanF,

  Thanks for directing your replies to my specific question.

  That you were taught a more reasonable view is unusual. Perhaps it's due to your location, or perhaps to a few individuals whose views differed from those of the Society itself.

  Perhaps. Though I was raised a JW in the USA for most of my life, I am now living 7000+ miles away and still find that some individuals in the congregation locally have views that differ. We always use the WTS publications, but it was only the basis for the meetings. What we felt and understood was sometimes unanimously agreed upon or sometimes we were at odds with points. These were, of course, brought out and discussed after the meeting on our own private time. I don't recall anyone making it an issue. Why? Our personal relationship with Jehovah God thru Jesus is what is taught from the Bible. The WTS may have its unique teachings, but it doesn't mean that it is infallible. Like I said, there are some in my former and current congregation that really don't care what the WTS teaches if it isn't from the Bible. And yes, some are elders, pioneers and even Gilead graduates.

  That is why I don't try to tend and label the WTS and JW as the same. They aren't no matter what the WTS says. If we think they are, then we have fallen into the mindset of the WTS. I have seen and experienced that it would be foolish on my part to do so. I wouldn't dare say that JWs (as a group) are completely united in thought or beliefs. Believe it or not, there are differences in understanding or opinions among JWs when in comes to WTS doctrine. I'm sure that you already know such from your experience or investigation. Didn't you ever hear the word "doubt" come up in your dealings with individuals who are witnesses of Jehovah in pertaining to the teachings of the WTS? It isn't a sin nor a reason to be disfellowshipped when a person doubts.

  True, some JW believe every utterance from the WTS. I don't blame them. Call them victims if you will. But each of us is responsible and can grow and can worship Jehovah in "spirit and truth" if that is our quest. Jehovah God will see to that.

  But the majority of JWs around the world are of the opinion that categories (1) and (2) are the same, and so to question "Jehovah's organization" is to question Jehovah himself. That's the reason disfellowshipping for disagreeing with the Watchtower Society exists. In other words, this whole nonsensical view comes from the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses, not from individual rank and file JWs.

  Perhaps the majority do think so. But as you and I can agree, this reasoning or explanation trickles down from the WTS (leaders of the religion they call Jehovah's Witnesses) and not from the individual worshipper of Jehovah God.

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
• 
  9

  Bethel Layoffs: Any personal experiences?

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1) any bethelites who have been laid off who would like to share their experiences/impressions?

  2) anybody know any bethelites who were laid off who'd like to tell the story?

  3) anybody go to a congregation that has had one of these laid off bethelites assigned to it?

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  Alligator Wisdom

  Apparently this is effecting the U.S. Branch only.

  The region where I'm currently living in hasn't had any Bethel/Branch layoffs...............................yet.

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
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  27

  How do you anticipate the Watchtower's fall?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  slowly and progressively, or rapidly after a specific date?.

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  Alligator Wisdom

  A good possibility is that it may eventually splinter off into factions.

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
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  24

  Is It true what they say about you?

  by OUTLAW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your all apostates!..every last,god forsaken,one of you..you`ve left jehovah..thats why your all,so unhappy!

  !...outlaw

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  Alligator Wisdom

  IMO,

  anyone who says that they are happy, happy, happy all the time would probably be the village fool.

  We all have concerns, anxieties and problems. Some more than others.

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
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  75

  I am a "semi-apologist"!

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

  what is this some kind of promotion?

  after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

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  Alligator Wisdom

  Hi AlanF and thanks for your reply/explanation.

  Sorry if my expression wasn't clear to you.

  : I grew up and lived as a JW for 35 years. Never did I think that the WTS and JWs are the same in any way, shape or form. I felt that my relationship with God was personal with him only, regardless of it being close or not. Hence, a JW. There is no mistaking that, in my testimony.

  Here you seem to be switching from "JWs" to "God" without a pause.

  "Hence a JW" = meaning a witness of Jehovah. My relationship with Jehovah God was personal and didn't include the WTS in any manner.

  I really do think you're confused, so let me give you a bit of history.

  I appreciate the time and effort it took for your detailed explanation. I am aware of most of the facts that you are telling me. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear and I apologize if the question I asked seemed hazy. (I'm the Far East and the time now is in the wee hours of the morning. Yes, burning the midnight oil).

  What I'm was trying to ask was that if any here think that the WTS and those who call themselves JW are the same? I feel that I'm a JW, but not a part of the WTS in my relationship with God. Even though the WTS may claim to have the Religous order of JW and the Christian congregation of JW, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are JWs. The WTS can even say that they are JW, but then again, anyone can make the claim.

  All the futile attempts of Russell, Rutherford, Knorr and the old gang in their lengthy explanations trying to gather men for themselves isn't well hidden. Who would actually believe that God spoke only thru the WTS and that the Society were the equivalent to God? Inquiring minds wouldn't. And yes, I know of many JW who don't believe what the WTS teaches. If it isn't in the Bible, then it doesn't hold water. The Holy Scriptures are the authority in any teaching.

  An individual who is a witness of Jehovah God (JW) isn't a Watchtowerite (WTS member). The head office in Brooklyn may claim otherwise, but it isn't true. How can man be the intercessor between humans and God Almighty? Impossible. Only Christ the King is.

  Who really cares what the WTS teaches if it isn't in the Bible?

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
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  21

  whats it all about?

  by andyg in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my mum used to be a jw, she was baptised after about 3 years and carried on for about another 2. she first started taking me to the meetings when i was about 8, and carried on week after week until she was disfellowshipped (she went a bit mad and left home, but that's by the by).

  the point is im 21 now and trying to make sense of the stuff i was brought up with for 5 years.

  if anyone could shed light on one or two things i'd be most grateful (and some of it i might have wrong anyway).. - before noah's flood, all animals were vegetarian.

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  Alligator Wisdom

  what is meant by WTS?

  Watch Tower Society

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
• 
  75

  I am a "semi-apologist"!

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

  what is this some kind of promotion?

  after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

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  Alligator Wisdom

  Confession said : I also know that this organization (managed by the Watchtower Society) very definitely teaches that there is no legitimate faith in God apart from faith in them.

  Thanks for your reply even though I didn't want to hijack this thread.

  I refused eldership twice because of what the WTS teaches on certain matters along with my personal relationship with God.

  I was taught from the age of 5 years old being raised as a JW that being a servant of God was a personal one. Regarding the quotes that you kindly posted, I am well aware of. What Christian of any demonination would believe that? That includes many of JWs that I know. From what I was taught from the Bible and from my congregation was that Jehovah uses a "channel of communication (true, whether it be an individual, the Bible, HS or a group/organization), but that Jehovah also can use any channel he wishes. It may be outside our perception, which may include the WTS angle or stand.

  Many JWs know that some of what the WTS teaches just doesn't fit into the Bible. Yes, many do! You feel/felt the same and so do most of those who post here. I myself am included. Who really can seriously believe what the WTS teaches if it isn't in the Bible? A Christian with a pure motive is what matters to Jehovah in that we follow Christ as our Leader. The WTS may print things, but it is up to each individual to "make sure of all things" (1Thessalonians 5:21).

  So, did any of you out there really think that the WTS and JWs are the same? Especially even after reading some of the quotes that the WTS had printed that through an organization is how we may see Paradise? That alone would throw up red flags that being a JW is not the same as being a Watchtowerite. I doesn't matter what any humans say. It only matters what Jehovah says.

  Sorry again to SlimBoyFat for highjacking your thread. Perhaps I committed an infraction by violated posting guidline rule #10. (Forgive me)

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
• 
  75

  I am a "semi-apologist"!

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

  what is this some kind of promotion?

  after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

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  Alligator Wisdom

  Sorry if I threw this thread out of tangent with my remarks above.

  I should have made it a seperate topic on an exclusive post.

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
• 
  75

  I am a "semi-apologist"!

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

  what is this some kind of promotion?

  after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

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  Alligator Wisdom

  Finally-Free said : Any organization that physically or psychologically segregates its membership from society as a whole is dangerous.

  Something about that reply to the initial statement that "JW's are not an evil cult" stood out to me and I would like to get clarification from other posters.

  Do any of you think/understand that the WTS (an organization) is the same as JWs (an individual)? I always thought that they were seperate. The Bible says that each will render an account to God on an individual basis - Romans 14:12.

  I grew up and lived as a JW for 35 years. Never did I think that the WTS and JWs are the same in any way, shape or form. I felt that my relationship with God was personal with him only, regardless of it being close or not. Hence, a JW. There is no mistaking that, in my testimony.

  The WTS, on the other hand, was a human run organization/corporation. This is what I was taught from my childhood from the elders, my mother and the older ones in my congregation. They (WTS & JW) are not the same. Apparently many here feel that they are the same. Why? Is it because you were taught such or just believed it because it seemed somewhat parallel?

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
• 
  255

  Going out with a bang

  by LittleToe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after much deliberation, i decided to go "out" at the end of a public talk.

  it didn't go down too well, but at least i was able to give some of my reasons for leaving.. i've put some of the details on my homepage.

  i'll update it more when i get the time and the strength.

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  Alligator Wisdom

  Back To The Top

  Thanks for directing me to this thread misspeaches.

  This method has crossed my mind.

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)